Dear Mike,

I love your question and will do my best to honor it with an effective answer.

One of the most essential principles of the Baha'i Faith is that God can do whatsoever He wills. For example, Baha'u'llah wrote: "He doeth what He pleaseth. He chooseth, and none may question His choice. Whatsoever He, the Well-Beloved, ordaineth, the same is, verily, beloved. To this He Who is the Lord of all creation beareth Me witness." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 21) And again, in one of His prayers, He affirms: "Thou, verily, hast power to do what Thou choosest." (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 10)

The number of times that the Baha'i Sacred Writings affirm this principle is literally in the tens of thousands, so hopefully these brief references will suffice. There can be no doubt, therefore, that Baha'u'llah is certain in His affirmation that the power of God can do anything.

So how, you wonder, could I have said: "It is not a literal incarnation because it is not sensible to think that the mortal frame of a human being can contain the very Essence of Divinity. That is like saying a cup can contain the ocean. It can't." Have I not contradicted myself?

I have not. Let's consider the question more closely.

First, you asked, "So you are saying God CANNOT do something, correct?" Yes, there are things God cannot do. He cannot die. He cannot be evil. He cannot be ignorant. He cannot be powerless. He cannot be defeated. He cannot be humble. God's qualities are vital expressions His nature, Who He really is.

When we affirm that He is eternal, we are at the same time denying that he can be non-eternal, or mortal. When we affirm that God is all-knowing, in that statement we are also saying He is not ignorant. When we say God is all-powerful, we are simultaneously asserting that He is not powerless. So, whenever we affirm one of God's qualities, we are also clearly stating that He cannot be the opposite of that quality, or its negation. This applies to every quality of God.

The problem here is our language. Our human language is so limiting when it comes to expressing spiritual realities. We struggle mightily to find adequate terms with which to express the love, power, wisdom, strength and knowledge of God. Inherently, because we are mere mortal humans, our language can never succeed in capturing the vast ultimate truth about God. Whatever the true secret of infinite Divine Reality may be, we can only grasp small glimpses and can only express, with human language, limited understandings. Baha'u'llah affirmed this clearly:

"Every man of insight hath confessed his powerlessness to scale the heights of Thy knowledge, and every man of learning hath acknowledged his failure to fathom the nature of Thine Essence." (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 98)

When I said God cannot insert His Essence into a mortal frame, I was not claiming that God was lacking in power or capacity in any way. The key to understanding this is to keep in mind that God Himself, as Creator, has already expressed His Will by virtue of the nature of the creation He created. Baha'u'llah teaches us the following:

"Say: Nature in its essence is the embodiment of My Name, the Maker, the Creator. Its manifestations are diversified by varying causes, and in this diversity there are signs for men of discernment. Nature is God's Will and is its expression in and through the contingent world. It is a dispensation of Providence ordained by the Ordainer, the All-Wise. Were anyone to affirm that it is the Will of God as manifested in the world of being, no one should question this assertion. It is endowed with a power whose reality men of learning fail to grasp. Indeed a man of insight can perceive naught therein save the effulgent splendour of Our Name, the Creator." (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 141)

God is the Creator. All of the worlds, both spiritual and material, exist because of His Will that they should exist. The natural world - the laws of nature such as gravity, energy, matter and motion - is God's Will. Science can (and should) explore the natural world and discover great things about how everything in existence operates. But the Baha'i Teachings make it clear, that the conditions of the natural world, in the first place, are the result of God's Will having ordained the essential nature of things.

So, the question is simply this: Given that God created the natural world as He did, would He then insert His infinite spiritual Essence into a mortal frame, much as one might try to pour the entire vast ocean into a tiny little cup? Our Writings say:

"Indeed, the God Who could so incarnate His own reality would, in the light of the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, cease immediately to be God." (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 112)

Certainly, God could have created a different creation than this one, one in which direct physical incarnation would be possible - His power is unlimited - but He didn't. He created this reality, with the laws of nature that we live with. God is not lacking in any power whatsoever. But He chose to create this reality. He assigned to it fundamental conditions, which we know as the laws of nature.

Certainly God can violate His own laws. When He does, we call those events miracles. But refer back to the affirmations of Baha'u'llah cited above: "He chooseth, and none may question His choice." "Thou, verily, hast power to do what Thou choosest."

Baha'i teachings are saying that God, given the choices He has already made about the nature of the creation He has created, has already chosen for us a world in which the finite cannot contain the infinite, in which the tiny cup cannot contain the entire vast ocean. He has chosen for us a world in which the Essence of Infinite Divine Reality cannot be inserted into any mortal frame.

These limitations are not limitations of God, they are limitations He has imposed on the nature of the world He has chosen to create.

We now turn to one remaining point. So how do Baha'is understand the concept of the incarnation? When Jesus said "the Father and I are one", what did He mean? When the Bible refers to Jesus as "God with us", what does that mean?

First of all, the Baha'i Faith accepts the incarnation of Christ and, indeed, of all of the Manifestations of God. So if God's infinite nature is unknowable, how can He be with us? The answer is that He sends very special Beings into our world - Baha'is call them Manifestations of God - who represent in our world the very Presence of God. They are the Word of God which He has uttered. They bring Divine Revelation to our realm of existence.

Baha'u'llah describes the Manifestations of God in a very interesting way. First, they are individuals of an incomparable nature. They are pre-existent, which means they are alive and with God before they come into our world. When they are "made flesh" they are born into our world. They take for Themselves a physical body which grows and develops in natural ways. They live in a family, They are members of a community, They experience the pains and joys of this world. They work normal work. Jesus, for instance, was a carpenter. The Bab was a merchant. Moses was a shepherd.

A moment in their lives arrives when the Holy Spirit awakens them to their Mission through an extraordinary encounter. Moses saw the burning bush. Jesus saw the dove. Muhammad encountered the angel Gabriel.

What happens is that these Great Ones manifest the qualities of God amongst men. They are like perfect Mirrors. Jesus alluded to this when He said, "the Father is in me".

The idea of being "in" a person can lead to confusion, however.

Here is an example of where a literal understanding of the idea of "in" leads to a very strange situation: "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." (John 6:56) OK, set aside the part about eating Jesus' flesh for a moment. He is saying after you do that, you end up "dwelling" in Him and also, oddly, Him inside of you? Taking this literally leads to an absurd outlook. Dwelling means to abide within something larger, like a house. Try this: the car is dwelling inside the garage and the garage is dwelling inside the car. Or how about this: the food is inside the refrigerator and the refrigerator is inside the food. So, does it make any sense to take literally the idea of someone being in Jesus and Jesus at the same time being inside of that someone?

Shall we take this one literally? "I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (John 14:20) Right. Jesus is in the Father and we're in Jesus and Jesus is inside of us. Well, since God is in (ie. incarnated) Jesus, and Jesus is in us, that must mean that we too are incarnations of God. Can God be incarnated in so many places and times at once? But wait. Can we even ask about what God can and cannot do?

Do you see how faulty and limited is our language and our everyday logic? We're like little ants trying to understand the truly Infinite. In most instances, the more we examine these quotations the more apparent it becomes that a literal understanding of them is not helpful.

Jesus was not, according to Baha'i teachings, saying that God is in Him in the same sense that His liver or His spleen is in Him. Instead He was expressing a spiritual truth; all of the qualities of God - His love, His power, His wisdom, His magnificent compassion - are reflected in Him, as the image of the sun is reflected in a mirror. When you look at the image in the mirror, all the qualities are there in the mirror. The sun appears bright, it is round, the color of the sun is apparent. The mirror is manifesting the qualities of that which it is reflecting, in this instance the sun.

Now, if the mirror could speak, what would it say? From the perspective of the image it is reflecting, it might say, "The sun is in me!" Likewise, from the perspective of the physical quality of the mirror, it might also say, "What do I know of the sun?"

Jesus strove to get people to understand this dual quality of His nature. On the one hand, He says, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). On the other hand, Jesus said: "Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." (Luke 18:19) But wait. I thought Jesus was sinless. Doesn't that mean He is good, very, very good? When taken literally, if the latter is true, how can the first one be true? And likewise, if the former one is true, how can the latter one be true?

The answer is, from the Baha'i perspective, that both are true because in one instance Jesus is speaking of His spiritual unity with God and in the other He is differentiating and subordinating Himself completely to God, as a servant would differentiate Himself from His master. We saw this many times in the Gospels. For example, He said repeately that all the works He was doing were in obedience to the Father. And in the Garden of Gethsemanie, when the Bible says he was literally sweating blood in His anguish, He says in the end, "Not my will but thine." (Luke 22:42)

In the first instance, He is a perfect reflection of God's qualities in the world. He is referring to the "image" of God that is expressed through all of His words and deeds, His miracles, and astounding revelation of truth. In the second instance, He is referring to His mortal nature, His limited human existence. From that perspective, only God is worthy of praise, only God is good. All must serve Him and honor Him accordingly.

In context each statement makes sense. As a totality, all of Jesus' statements make sense when it is understood that at different times He is making different points in order to help people learn the lessons they need to learn. Taken together, all of them present a coherent outlook on the nature of God, the nature of His Manifestation, and, indeed, our own nature as well.

In sum, I want to make it clear that Baha'i teachings assert that Jesus' "complete incarnation" is valid and true. But we consider it to be the incarnation of God's attributes, not His Essence. Our Writings caution:

"The divinity attributed to so great a Being and the complete incarnation of the names and attributes of God in so exalted a Person should, under no circumstances, be misconceived or misinterpreted." (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 112)

The incarnation, in Baha'i conception is really the Divine process of Manifestation, not embodiment. Embodiment of Divine Reality into the mortal human body cannot happen, not because God is lacking in any abilities to carry out His sovereign Will, but because He has chosen for us a world in which embodiment of the Divine Essence into a person does not happen:

"Thou art, verily, He Who, through the power of His might, doeth whatsoever He desireth, and commandeth, through the potency of His will, whatsoever He chooseth. None can withstand the operation of Thy decree; none can divert the course of Thine appointment. Thou art, in truth, the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the Most Bountiful." (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 255)

Manifestation is what happens when God chooses to speak with us or to dwell amongst us. The Manifestation is the Divine Presence, "God with us", and the Source of all that we know or will ever know of God.

Thank you for asking such an excellent question. I hope this is helpful.

My brother and friend Mike, if either of us die tonight none of us are going to any place worse than here for accepting any of the messengers just gives us the label Bahai, Muslem or so on. Bahais as you might know believe in ever evolving state of human soul. That is why we need ever revealing God's teachings for our Spritiual evolution and to believe in finality of God's revelation with Moses, Jesus or Muhammad necessitates God's cessation of his spiritual nurishment which contradicts His all merciful attribute. Now as Bahais we already believe in all previous messengers including Jesus so I am not worried about physical death and even if I was a Budist I would still have no worries since God is all foregiving. As you may have guessed my background is half Bahai and half Shie Islam. I have never been offended by none Bahais since there are divers approaches to anyone's journey toward the truth. I respect yours because it is peaceful with mutual respect although I must admit I would prefer if Bahai Faith was not called Bahaism. My grandfather and his brother went to kill Bahais because they were told by their Mulla (Muslem priest) that would secure a place in heaven for them but once they encountered the teachings of the Bahai Faith they became believers as well. For anyone to see continiuty through Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Bahai Faith can be very problematic considering all the dark and violent depictions by media and clergies of all sides. Just keep in mind that Islam is going through its dark ages as Christianity did before the rennaissance during which time many Jews, Muslems and even Christians were slautered by the order of the church.I admire your and Ed's knowledge of the Bible greatly and I am certain no matter what label you choose for yourself it is the gaze of your heart that will guide you in the right direction even after physical death. p.s. I have sort of studied the Quran and might be able to share what little I can with you.

Dear Mike,

Once again you offer excellent questions.

I'd like to begin by offering what seems to me as a correction. I hope that is OK with you and I am offering it in a friendly way.

You stated: "For the Christian to change his worldview to Bahai'ism is...Hmmm, like the Moslem converting to Christianity." I would say the analogy is in error because when a Muslim becomes a Christian, he or she is actually going backwards in time, rejecting a more recent Manifestation of God, Muhammad, for one that came longer ago. When a Christian becomes a Baha'i he or she is moving forwards in time and thus accepting a more recent Manifestation of God that is the fulfillment of the promises and prophecies of the Ones that came before, hence he or she is not rejecting any Manifestations of God at all. In the first instance one is engaging in an act of rejection, in the latter instance one is affirming them all and rejecting none. As you say, this is huge.

What I'd like you to understand is that we Baha'is, when we successfully align our attitudes to the Teachings of our Faith, have intense adoration and love for all of God's Manifestations. We know, from our Writings, that the approach to take is not one of picking and choosing as if they are all Cosmic Competitors.

When a Jew in Jesus' Day accepted Jesus, he was not rejecting Moses, he was affirming Him. Jesus said as much:

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:45-47)

Similarly, when a Christian, in a later era, accepted Muhammad, she did not reject Jesus, she embraced the fulfillment of His promises. The Qur'an extolled all of God's Messengers, including Jesus, and praised the loftiness of their station.

"We gave Jesus the son of Mary clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit." (The Qur'an, Yusuf Ali transl., Surah 2:87)

"Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah." (The Qur'an, Yusuf Ali transl., Surah 3:45)

"...We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." (The Qur'an, Yusuf Ali transl., Surah 5:46)

So today, we now know, thanks to the brilliance of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, that all of the Manifestations of God are ON THE SAME TEAM! They are not competitors. They come from the same Infinite Source. They are Bringers of One Religion, which is being revealed to mankind in progressive stages according to humanity's growing capacity to receive Divine Teaching. We are taught to love the Light of Truth in whatever Lamp it shines. We are also taught that it is incredibly vital to stay current with God's ongoing progressive Revelation.

It would be helpful if you could appreciate how much the Baha'i Teachings agree with you. For instance, you repeatedly make reference to Jesus' claim to be the only way to God. The Baha'i Faith accepts the Bible, and of course joyfully embraces this teaching of Jesus. In my understanding, however, we have a disconnect because the teachings of your church probably don't place Jesus' words in their proper historical context, rather taking them as an immutable absolute existing outside of time. When Jesus spoke those words, to state something that is obvious, He was standing there among the people. At that exact moment, the words were completely true. God's Manifestation was in the world, so of course His way would be the Way. The Voice of God was coming through Him and that Voice was revealing the essential Truth.

In earlier times God had spoken Truth before. Likewise, in subsequent times God spoke again, and again, and again. After Jesus came the Revelation of Muhammad. Then came the Bab. Then came Baha'u'llah. Each one of them speaks with the same authority and Truth that Jesus offered.

Muhammad in His time warned the people of the great costs of rejecting His Revelation, so did the Bab, and so did Baha'u'llah. Our Writings say that the "first duty" that God places upon His servants, in every age, is recognition of God's Representative on earth. Baha'u'llah affirms: "Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed." Baha'u'llah continues, however, and says that the second duty is obedience to God's most recent Laws and Teachings. "These twin duties," Baha'u'llah asserts, "are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration." (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 330-331)

So, we're agreed that when Jesus proclaimed that no one could be saved without following His way, He was speaking the truth. But, what I'd like you to also understand, is that when subsequent Divine Teachers came from God and made similar claims, not only was this not a rejection of Jesus' earlier claims, it was an affirmation of them. The Manifestations of God are all speaking with One Voice, revealing One Spirit, pursuing One Mission. Spiritually, they all come from the same Source.

Hence, in our Teaching, to reject any of God's Messengers is to indicate lack of true faith in all of them, or at least a lack of understanding, even if a person claims to be an adherent of just one of Them. In one passage Baha'u'llah states: "...he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past..." (Baha'u'llah, Baha'i Prayers, p. 210)

How can someone claim to be faithful to Moses, after having turned away from His Promised One, Jesus, when He appears? Again, review what Jesus said: "Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (John 5:45-47) And also, how can one be truly faithful to Jesus, after having turned away from His Promised One when He appears? Logically, the way to be loyal to an earlier Manifestation of God is to embrace the True One foretold by Him.

Baha'u'llah explained:

"These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: "No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers." For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'án, revealed: "I am all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus." (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 50-51) (Note: The 2nd station is distinction, which is covered in a later passage, not this one. Also Kawthar refers to a river that is said to flow in Paradise, in the spiritual realm. Obviously, a metaphorical term.)

"...all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: "I am the return of all the Prophets," He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established...." (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 51)

Unfortunately, the theologians, through the centuries, have added their own interpretations, invariably with the intention of increasing the exclusivity of their religious claims. In our day, we are better served by going back to the Source Scriptures and reading and coming to our own conclusions with fresh eyes, open minds, and respectful hearts. In our day, the Spirit is calling upon all of us to recognize the inclusiveness of the Oneness of God and His Messengers.

You asked about salvation. You said, if I follow Jesus I am saved, and if I do not I am punished, but if I follow Baha'u'llah, what happens to me? If I agreed to stay in the same frame of reference as you, I could say the same thing to you. I could claim, you merely THINK you're saved, and of course that is what the priests and theologians want you to believe, but by refusing to accept God's Manifestation for this Day, you are the one that is actually not coming to a happy ending. I could claim that Baha'u'llah is the one that offers salvation in this Day and that all who turn away will suffer for it. In that scenario, it would be you who would be in the role of the Jews who were turning away from Jesus and that would be placing yourself in spiritual danger. Certainly that is one way the quotes which I have shared with you could be understood. But I find this type of argumentation unproductive.

I would plead earnestly with you and any other reader, however, not to view the questions so narrowly. Consistent with the passages cited above, I certainly do think the decision to accept or reject Baha'u'llah in this Day is a very consequential one. It is of great importance to know what the Will of God is for Humanity today, and individually for you and me today. This knowledge comes only from the most recent Revelation. But it is the Spirit of oneness that is so critical. Can we be faithful to any of God's Messengers if we engage in picking and choosing among them? Will we have success spiritually, in this world or the next, if we try to divide, that which God has made as One? Even among the Baha'is, can we be truly faithful to Baha'u'llah, if we do not also show full respect and faith and adoration of the Manifestations of God which preceded Him?

'Abdu'l-Baha answered:

"…the Holy Manifestations Who founded the religious systems are united and agreed; there is no differentiation possible in Their mission and teachings…" ('Abdu'l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 197-198)

One of the greatest challenges we all face is that we approach the major religions as if they are competitors. They are not. God's religion is One. As Baha'u'llah has written,

"This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future." (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 136)

With all my heart, I believe that true salvation comes from recognizing God's Manifestation for the Day in which we are living and by abiding by the Laws and Teachings He has revealed for today. I believe that fulfilling this twin obligation brings us closer to ALL of God's Great Manifestations, in the past and in the future. Faith in Baha'u'llah reaffirms your faith in Jesus, and in all of the Others as well. Leaving the narrow picking and choosing behavior behind, we begin to live according to the unifying blessings and grace of the Holy Spirit.

All the best,

Ed